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	<title>Comments on: Swimming vs. Athletics [Guest Post]</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/</link>
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		<title>By: Rowan Simpson</title>
		<link>http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/#comment-9691</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rowan Simpson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rowansimpson.com/?p=1577#comment-9691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Tim 

Great comment! :-)

Your point about running around in circles or swimming back and forth is excellent.

Perhaps that&#039;s why events like the Coast-To-Coast grab our imagination?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tim </p>
<p>Great comment! :-)</p>
<p>Your point about running around in circles or swimming back and forth is excellent.</p>
<p>Perhaps that&#8217;s why events like the Coast-To-Coast grab our imagination?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/#comment-9470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rowansimpson.com/?p=1577#comment-9470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m just thinking out loud, but i believe if your going to attack the different strokes of swimming you have to mention at least mention hurdles in running. No, we don&#039;t need to jump to run and no we don&#039;t need to swim in extremely hard styles to get to our destination, but we do. In fact that was a very silly move. I say this because, no on has to run in a circle or swim back and forth endlessly; its just a sport
 I ran and swam for 16 years and i still remember the first time i tried to swim butterfly. I was in high school and i bet my swimming friend that i could swim more laps than him any day... i never got to the other side. My failure made me start swimming and to this very day swimming fly is an extremely strenuous task.
 In the end, without the fluff, my point is that you can&#039;t dismiss a sport that over 6 billion people cannot compete in in the lowest of levels. (elementary/primary school)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just thinking out loud, but i believe if your going to attack the different strokes of swimming you have to mention at least mention hurdles in running. No, we don&#8217;t need to jump to run and no we don&#8217;t need to swim in extremely hard styles to get to our destination, but we do. In fact that was a very silly move. I say this because, no on has to run in a circle or swim back and forth endlessly; its just a sport<br />
 I ran and swam for 16 years and i still remember the first time i tried to swim butterfly. I was in high school and i bet my swimming friend that i could swim more laps than him any day&#8230; i never got to the other side. My failure made me start swimming and to this very day swimming fly is an extremely strenuous task.<br />
 In the end, without the fluff, my point is that you can&#8217;t dismiss a sport that over 6 billion people cannot compete in in the lowest of levels. (elementary/primary school)</p>
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		<title>By: Chainsaw</title>
		<link>http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/#comment-9161</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chainsaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rowansimpson.com/?p=1577#comment-9161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d be quite happy to see your list put into action. A way way smaller Olympics would be good, not many countries can afford to host it at present. Except synchronised swimming must stay of course, everyone loves that!
I wouldn&#039;t ban the other swimming strokes, just let them use whatever they want!

@tr3v - me too!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be quite happy to see your list put into action. A way way smaller Olympics would be good, not many countries can afford to host it at present. Except synchronised swimming must stay of course, everyone loves that!<br />
I wouldn&#8217;t ban the other swimming strokes, just let them use whatever they want!</p>
<p>@tr3v &#8211; me too!</p>
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		<title>By: tr3v</title>
		<link>http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/#comment-9149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tr3v]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 07:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rowansimpson.com/?p=1577#comment-9149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have always struggled with Equestrian events - shouldn&#039;t the horse get the medals?

Or maybe its because I can&#039;t ride a horse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always struggled with Equestrian events &#8211; shouldn&#8217;t the horse get the medals?</p>
<p>Or maybe its because I can&#8217;t ride a horse.</p>
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		<title>By: Rowan</title>
		<link>http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/#comment-9148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rowan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 06:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rowansimpson.com/?p=1577#comment-9148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Chainsaw:

I&#039;ve heard the &quot;no sports that require judges&quot; and &quot;no team sports&quot; arguments before (in fact, I may have made those arguments myself at various times).

There is another common one: &quot;no sports where the Olympics isn&#039;t the pinnacle of the sport&quot;.

But, the devil is in the details.  For example, there are hardly any sports that don&#039;t involve some form of referee - like the person who decides if an athlete is disqualified if he steps on the line in athletics.  Is that &quot;judging&quot;?  I assume you&#039;re talking about subjective judging - e.g. points out of 10 for artistic merit.

Let&#039;s go through &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/index_uk.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the sports&lt;/a&gt; and see what would be left...

* Archery - In
* Athletics - In, although the walking and hurdles events might not qualify (in the same way as butterfly and breaststroke don&#039;t in the swimming)
* Badminton - In?
* Basketball - Out, team sport and also not the pinnacle of the sport
* Boxing - Out, requires judges (unless each fight is to a KO!)
* Canoe / Kayak - In
* Cycling - In, although does the Team Pursuit count as a team sport - the name would suggest it does.
* Diving - Out, requires judges
* Equestrian - In, apart from those events that include dressage as that requires judges.
* Fencing - In
* Football - Out, a team sport and REALLY not the pinnacle of the sport (well I suppose it is for those under 23!)
* Gymnastics - SOOOO Out
* Handball - Out, team sport
* Hockey - Out, team sport
* Judo - Out, judges
* Modern pentathlon - In
* Rowing - In
* Sailing - In
* Shooting - In
* Synchronized Swimming - Out
* Swimming - In, but significantly reduced as only freestyle events would be allowed
* Table tennis - In, curiously
* Taekwondo - Out, judges
* Tennis - Out, not the pinnacle of the sport
* Triathlon - In
* Volleyball - Out, team sport
* Water Polo - Out, team sport
* Weightlifting - Too close to call: does it require judges (yes, but it&#039;s hard to say if the judging is subjective), and it would probably be a Clean-And-Jerk event only as the Snatch is clearly not the most efficient lifting technique
* Wrestling - Out, judges

I have to say, it would be a much smaller and, I reckon, much less interesting event if that were to happen.

Don&#039;t hold your breath!

PS If you think you&#039;re angry now just wait until golf, roller skating, surfing and (wait for it) bridge are included in the Olympics - all four &quot;sports&quot; are recognised by the IOC.  I would argue that Tug-o-War (last contested at the Antwerp Olympics in 1920) should come back onto the programme ahead of all of those.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chainsaw:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard the &#8220;no sports that require judges&#8221; and &#8220;no team sports&#8221; arguments before (in fact, I may have made those arguments myself at various times).</p>
<p>There is another common one: &#8220;no sports where the Olympics isn&#8217;t the pinnacle of the sport&#8221;.</p>
<p>But, the devil is in the details.  For example, there are hardly any sports that don&#8217;t involve some form of referee &#8211; like the person who decides if an athlete is disqualified if he steps on the line in athletics.  Is that &#8220;judging&#8221;?  I assume you&#8217;re talking about subjective judging &#8211; e.g. points out of 10 for artistic merit.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s go through <a href="http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/index_uk.asp" rel="nofollow">the sports</a> and see what would be left&#8230;</p>
<p>* Archery &#8211; In<br />
* Athletics &#8211; In, although the walking and hurdles events might not qualify (in the same way as butterfly and breaststroke don&#8217;t in the swimming)<br />
* Badminton &#8211; In?<br />
* Basketball &#8211; Out, team sport and also not the pinnacle of the sport<br />
* Boxing &#8211; Out, requires judges (unless each fight is to a KO!)<br />
* Canoe / Kayak &#8211; In<br />
* Cycling &#8211; In, although does the Team Pursuit count as a team sport &#8211; the name would suggest it does.<br />
* Diving &#8211; Out, requires judges<br />
* Equestrian &#8211; In, apart from those events that include dressage as that requires judges.<br />
* Fencing &#8211; In<br />
* Football &#8211; Out, a team sport and REALLY not the pinnacle of the sport (well I suppose it is for those under 23!)<br />
* Gymnastics &#8211; SOOOO Out<br />
* Handball &#8211; Out, team sport<br />
* Hockey &#8211; Out, team sport<br />
* Judo &#8211; Out, judges<br />
* Modern pentathlon &#8211; In<br />
* Rowing &#8211; In<br />
* Sailing &#8211; In<br />
* Shooting &#8211; In<br />
* Synchronized Swimming &#8211; Out<br />
* Swimming &#8211; In, but significantly reduced as only freestyle events would be allowed<br />
* Table tennis &#8211; In, curiously<br />
* Taekwondo &#8211; Out, judges<br />
* Tennis &#8211; Out, not the pinnacle of the sport<br />
* Triathlon &#8211; In<br />
* Volleyball &#8211; Out, team sport<br />
* Water Polo &#8211; Out, team sport<br />
* Weightlifting &#8211; Too close to call: does it require judges (yes, but it&#8217;s hard to say if the judging is subjective), and it would probably be a Clean-And-Jerk event only as the Snatch is clearly not the most efficient lifting technique<br />
* Wrestling &#8211; Out, judges</p>
<p>I have to say, it would be a much smaller and, I reckon, much less interesting event if that were to happen.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t hold your breath!</p>
<p>PS If you think you&#8217;re angry now just wait until golf, roller skating, surfing and (wait for it) bridge are included in the Olympics &#8211; all four &#8220;sports&#8221; are recognised by the IOC.  I would argue that Tug-o-War (last contested at the Antwerp Olympics in 1920) should come back onto the programme ahead of all of those.</p>
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		<title>By: Chainsaw</title>
		<link>http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/#comment-9112</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chainsaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rowansimpson.com/?p=1577#comment-9112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(Sorry this is late) Hell yeah! Are you sure we haven&#039;t met? I have been saying this for years. It should fastest from one end to the other, doesn&#039;t matter how you do it (as long as you don&#039;t touch the bottom). Breaststroke, butterfly and backstroke (all the &quot;B&quot; strokes) are stupid! Why invent a slower way of swimming? I too use the backwards running race as a parallel.

I also believe that all competition where judging is used should be canned, and all team sports should be canned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Sorry this is late) Hell yeah! Are you sure we haven&#8217;t met? I have been saying this for years. It should fastest from one end to the other, doesn&#8217;t matter how you do it (as long as you don&#8217;t touch the bottom). Breaststroke, butterfly and backstroke (all the &#8220;B&#8221; strokes) are stupid! Why invent a slower way of swimming? I too use the backwards running race as a parallel.</p>
<p>I also believe that all competition where judging is used should be canned, and all team sports should be canned.</p>
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		<title>By: Bradley</title>
		<link>http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/#comment-9036</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bradley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rowansimpson.com/?p=1577#comment-9036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed - &quot;walking&quot; is as deserving as a spot in the Olympics  as &quot;breaststroke&quot;. You could say the same about &quot;triple jump&quot;, &quot;synchronized swimming&quot; etc also, but all we would end up doing is massively offending all the breaststrokers, walkers, triple jumpers, and synchronized swimmers out there. 

My point is simply this: There has never been a 100m/race walking medalist at the Olympics. The reason: They are very different events (primarily in distance, and not in muscles used. If there were ever a 100m walk then it would be different story completely). 

Swimming is different. 

People can easily win 6...7....8....(?) medals, and are then touted as the &#039;Greatest Olympian of All Time&#039;, where in fact they simply able to compete in many events that have huge cross-over between them - and so allow versatile athletes with good team mates to clean up. Of course they have to be phenomenal athletes too - which Phelps undoubtedly is. 

And just for the record: I love swimming. Also, I never want to see a 100m walking race.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed &#8211; &#8220;walking&#8221; is as deserving as a spot in the Olympics  as &#8220;breaststroke&#8221;. You could say the same about &#8220;triple jump&#8221;, &#8220;synchronized swimming&#8221; etc also, but all we would end up doing is massively offending all the breaststrokers, walkers, triple jumpers, and synchronized swimmers out there. </p>
<p>My point is simply this: There has never been a 100m/race walking medalist at the Olympics. The reason: They are very different events (primarily in distance, and not in muscles used. If there were ever a 100m walk then it would be different story completely). </p>
<p>Swimming is different. </p>
<p>People can easily win 6&#8230;7&#8230;.8&#8230;.(?) medals, and are then touted as the &#8216;Greatest Olympian of All Time&#8217;, where in fact they simply able to compete in many events that have huge cross-over between them &#8211; and so allow versatile athletes with good team mates to clean up. Of course they have to be phenomenal athletes too &#8211; which Phelps undoubtedly is. </p>
<p>And just for the record: I love swimming. Also, I never want to see a 100m walking race.</p>
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		<title>By: tr3v</title>
		<link>http://rowansimpson.com/2009/02/03/swimming-vs-athletics/#comment-9033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tr3v]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rowansimpson.com/?p=1577#comment-9033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to agree, but at least the difference between swimming strokes is not as ambiguous as walking vs running. A &quot;walking race&quot; is an oxymoron.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree, but at least the difference between swimming strokes is not as ambiguous as walking vs running. A &#8220;walking race&#8221; is an oxymoron.</p>
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